tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post5080161155569768154..comments2024-03-24T16:50:00.727-05:00Comments on Maria Zannini blogspot: Critiquing At Your PerilUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-68695905074694500042010-06-12T16:22:46.173-05:002010-06-12T16:22:46.173-05:00Thank you for the info Maria. I am looking at Verl...Thank you for the info Maria. I <b>am</b> looking at Verla Kaye's Blue Boards, but it never hurts to cast a wide net. Thanks again.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00560147197082915677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-5683006889151802292010-06-12T10:43:37.440-05:002010-06-12T10:43:37.440-05:00The tail is a nuisance, yes. I did learn how to su...The tail is a nuisance, yes. I did learn how to supress the urge to "HeeHaw!" all the time. That was awkward.Renee Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14142341397085289166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-2411221533633789792010-06-12T08:06:36.244-05:002010-06-12T08:06:36.244-05:00Renee: Crit long enough and you're bound to en...Renee: Crit long enough and you're bound to encounter a diva or two. But their tirades are usually their undoing.<br /><br />Eventually others see them for what they are, and their bad karma revisits them.<br /><br />I'm sorry you've had ugly experiences critting some bad apples. Things like that keep me from critting more freely too.<br /><br />Ref: mule gene<br />Yup. Now if I could only get rid of that tail. :grin:Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-42636136069041734072010-06-12T07:47:54.036-05:002010-06-12T07:47:54.036-05:00Marian is probably right. I've critiqued a cou...Marian is probably right. I've critiqued a couple of authors who have self published and they've either gotten angry with me, or they've disregarded my 'suggestions' and asked someone else to critique, with a few unkind words tossed my way.<br /><br />Like you, the best critique I received was from another author/editor and man, did it hurt. But I respected and admired this person, so I forced myself to swallow my pride and looked at my manuscript with a different eye. They were right. I had a lot of work to do.<br /><br />It's amazing how much your writing improves when you have the epiphany that you are not all that you thought you were and cannot edit your own work effectively. Another pair of eyes is needed. <br /><br />I have had some terrible experiences editing/critiquing other work. I wouldn't say that I won't edit 'new' writers, but I'm more careful in doing so. I edit a chapter, if their reaction is negative I won't go further. <br /><br />As you said, time is precious. I have very little time for my own writing, so an ungrateful writer is something I won't waste it on.<br /><br />PS: Great post, by the way. Glad to see I'm not the only one with the mule gene.Renee Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14142341397085289166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-32919197552849115392010-06-12T06:51:15.864-05:002010-06-12T06:51:15.864-05:00Marian: I never thought of that.
That's a bri...Marian: I never thought of that.<br /><br />That's a brilliant piece of observation. Not that all self-published authors are like that, but I can see how they would tend to be dismissive if they're not used to critical analysis.<br /><br />I'll bear that in mind for the future. Thank you!Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-76076917990027136432010-06-12T02:43:12.508-05:002010-06-12T02:43:12.508-05:00My personal rule of thumb is that if a writer'...My personal rule of thumb is that if a writer's previous work been self- or vanity-published, I'm not going to critique anything of theirs. Chances are, they're not accustomed to receiving critical feedback and may get upset or try to defend their work. <br /><br />I've given crits to such writers twice now (after they asked for such feedback), and it hasn't helped them. The second time, after I pointed out errors, the writer said that was part of her style so she wasn't going to change it. <br /><br />She was planning to query agents, so time will tell how that works out.Marian Pererahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15700524210146863718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-72783514629093751472010-06-11T16:52:55.616-05:002010-06-11T16:52:55.616-05:00Tia: Chemistry is important, but not a deal breake...Tia: Chemistry is important, but not a deal breaker for me. I'd be willing to trade chemistry for a good communicator. But I feel lucky when I get both. :)Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-18972605291949911362010-06-11T16:00:01.991-05:002010-06-11T16:00:01.991-05:00I used to belong to online critique groups, but I ...I used to belong to online critique groups, but I didn't get a lot out of them other than the basics. I started a writing blog and clicked with several people, and now they read my books.<br /><br />For me, clicking with a person and then critiquing worked better than being critiqued by strangers. I guess because we respect each other's opinion.Tia Nevitthttp://www.tianevitt.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-15538259291375837752010-06-11T13:41:26.688-05:002010-06-11T13:41:26.688-05:00Catie: I'll tell you how I found my CPs.
I wa...Catie: I'll tell you how I found my CPs.<br /><br />I was (and still am) on OWW. (http://sff.onlinewritingworkshop.com/) While I don't crit there any more, I did find my CPs there.<br /><br />It was six months of critting different people, and finding reviewers with good analytical and communication skills.<br /><br />I chose people not only for their reviewing skill but also for their writing talent. In other words, I looked for people better than me.<br /><br />It's time consuming, but it's worth it once you find the right people.Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-91018253004787472972010-06-11T13:35:07.893-05:002010-06-11T13:35:07.893-05:00Angela: You're welcome. :o)
We have a natural...Angela: You're welcome. :o)<br /><br />We have a natural blindness when we edit. I can't tell you how many times I've cringed in horror when one of my CPs mentions something I <i>should</i> have caught.Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-14205191365695879072010-06-11T13:31:02.383-05:002010-06-11T13:31:02.383-05:00Everything you mentioned is exactly why I hesitate...Everything you mentioned is exactly why I hesitate to take on critiquing duties, unless the writer has a proven track record of accepting feedback. So many people claim they want "help," but are really just looking for pats on the back. I've yet to find CP(s) or a group of writers that was truly ready for an honest assessment of the work presented. (Which means I also wasn't able to put a whole lot of trust in the appraisal of my own work). *<i>sigh</i>* Thus, the search continues...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00560147197082915677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-31432364877782665532010-06-11T13:30:00.334-05:002010-06-11T13:30:00.334-05:00Maria,
I want to thank you for critting my work. ...Maria,<br />I want to thank you for critting my work. First off, it's something that you didn't have to do so that in and of itself is reason enough to thank you for your time.<br />Secondly, the information you provided was very insighful and touched on so many things I tend to miss when self-editing.<br />I also like to critique other writers' works because I can identify various craft-related matters that I'm guilty of as well.Angela Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324366495151363782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-57171765835418113142010-06-11T12:27:21.488-05:002010-06-11T12:27:21.488-05:00Barbara: There are times when I come across narrat...Barbara: There are times when I come across narrative that's missing something but I don't know quite what it is.<br /><br />If I can't put my finger on it, I'll say so, but I prefer to give concrete suggestions whenever possible.<br /><br />Ref: harsh<br />One person's harshness is another person's marshmallow. Everyone's threshold is different.Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-76980066817458768512010-06-11T12:09:32.870-05:002010-06-11T12:09:32.870-05:00I'll critique the work of strangers, and I'...I'll critique the work of strangers, and I've been called harsh before, which baffles me since I thoroughly believe in honesty without brutality. I love getting precise, specific critiques. The only ones I've ever protested were vague ones. It does me no good to hear crits like "this is boring" because I can't work with it. I need something more specific.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-48622528699913933692010-06-11T08:23:44.535-05:002010-06-11T08:23:44.535-05:00Lynn: I agree. The tougher ones might be hard to s...Lynn: I agree. The tougher ones might be hard to swallow, but boy, they have been the best lessons for me.<br /><br />I've found too that I don't necessarily learn that lesson right away. It might be months later when something a tough CP says finally clicks. Then I feel like I climbed a huge hurdle.Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-10235276290676835122010-06-11T08:20:45.194-05:002010-06-11T08:20:45.194-05:00Jennifer: You are so right. In my group, we read e...Jennifer: You are so right. In my group, we read entire manuscript novels at one go. And I never let the same person read updated versions of the same story. <br /><br />It's true that you can become too comfy with a person's work, but I have some pretty outstanding CPs. We've been together for several years and they are so good at being objective, not just with my work but with each other.<br /><br />I also have outside readers who beta read for me when I need an isolated opinion.Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-51315418405896500332010-06-11T08:01:29.657-05:002010-06-11T08:01:29.657-05:00I've always found that blunt critiques are bes...I've always found that blunt critiques are best, no matter how harsh they are. I think accepting and learning from critique is almost more important than self-editing, because other readers point out those weaknesses in our writing we're blinded to. After all, how can we fix things if we don't know or won't accept that there's a problem?<br /><br />Of course, it does take time and much ego-bruising to learn this (at least it did for me!). I don't crit other people's work much because I am worried about being too blunt and hurting their feelings. Sometimes you can just tell they won't take it well :-/Andrea Coulterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13478845861604754432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-10491461839789452302010-06-11T08:00:16.980-05:002010-06-11T08:00:16.980-05:00Well, I sometimes a good unbiased outside critique...Well, I sometimes a good unbiased outside critique is really helpful. I fear that my critique partners know my writing so well they don't always see or point out areas I really should work on more. (Although I wouldn't trade them for anything! LOL)Jennifer Shirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16970585847385511795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-65207094784531637152010-06-11T07:28:20.508-05:002010-06-11T07:28:20.508-05:00JL: As long as we focus on the work and not the wr...JL: As long as we focus on the work and not the writer, it'll work.<br /><br />As you mentioned, there are some critters who take pot shots at the person rather than analyze the work. I get rid of those soul suckers asap. I don't need to deal with people on an ego trip.<br /><br />I want to work with professionals who take this business seriously.Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-66988740026727073482010-06-11T07:25:15.743-05:002010-06-11T07:25:15.743-05:00Joanne: We have the luxury of being familiar with ...Joanne: We have the luxury of being familiar with long term readers. <br /><br />I can say things to my CPs (and vice versa) that might seem curt to strangers, but it's a shorthand for us since we know each other so well.Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-72423740051939531472010-06-11T07:18:30.939-05:002010-06-11T07:18:30.939-05:00I find that by crtiquing other people's work, ...I find that by crtiquing other people's work, I learn how to make my own stronger. I'm like you, I tend to be blunt, but I warn people ahead of time about it. I also try to point out positive things about their work too.<br /><br />I don't mind harsh critiques, as long as it's helpful and not spiteful. Had a few of those too.J.L. Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720026416539692196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-1331478225102915202010-06-11T07:15:54.745-05:002010-06-11T07:15:54.745-05:00I have a couple of very valued readers and have le...I have a couple of very valued readers and have learned through the whole writing process not to take editorial suggestions personally. And by doing so, I've found that more often than not, the critiques are spot-on and so helpful to the work as a whole.Joannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03972054718663959694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-38370144258434872962010-06-11T07:13:43.112-05:002010-06-11T07:13:43.112-05:00You're welcome, Ted.You're welcome, Ted.Maria Zanninihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01604862636922299273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3023439581304993308.post-20926929657541975352010-06-11T05:23:48.924-05:002010-06-11T05:23:48.924-05:00I think you did a great job of critting my short s...I think you did a great job of critting my short story (and thanks again!). I have to mull over parts of it to get it right, but I know it will be better.Ted Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09022309459554237650noreply@blogger.com